11 Versatility

Good point, John. Well-taken. I should have probably taken that side of the argument deeper. It’s necessary for any level of experience to continually grow and explore new things. I believe the alternative to constant learning is called retirement.

posted at 08:24 pm on May 21, 2008 by Keith LaFerriere

12

I believe the alternative to constant learning is called retirement.

Actually, I believe that’s called death.

posted at 10:38 pm on May 21, 2008 by amber simmons

13 Discussing Salary

I agree that salary should not be discussed among coworkers unless you are really confident that you can handle it tactfully. And no matter what, it should not be part of salary negotiation. The information can be utilized to set salary expectations though.

posted at 04:06 am on May 22, 2008 by abhi G

14 great

Very useful tips, in fact a very useful and worth reading article.

posted at 08:41 am on May 22, 2008 by sachin kumar

15 Cultural differences

As for the discussions of pay between full-time employees, whether or not to do it depends to a very large degree on the culture of the organization and of the surrounding society. While it’s probably seen as a bad thing in the US (one would expect that given the general competitive culture) or in the UK (where something else is behind it, I believe) it’s quite different in a place like Denmark. Coming from the latter place and working in the UK now I had the chance to experience that.

From a personal viewpoint I’d have to say that advising against discussing salaries is wrong. You should advise to be wise about it instead. It’s also rather interesting that you’re only judging this thing from the managers perspective. Sure you’ll have negative experiences from the viewpoint, but did you stop to think that maybe there were other problems behind this? As an example, if you pay two people different salaries for the same job, don’t you think one of them might start getting a little negative if they find out? Your solution to this – make sure they don’t share the information – is not very intelligent. On the contrary, people tend to be very understanding once they know that a) they’re being treated fairly and b) they have all the info regarding the situation.

Regards
Fake

posted at 10:09 am on May 22, 2008 by Fake Fiftyone

16 Clarifying salary discussions

The subject of salary seems to be a hot one, and I’d like to clarify a few things.

I approached this topic from a manager’s perspective, but it would be silly to think that I’m only aware of that singular view. I think discussing your personal information should be handled with delicacy and tact. (Thanks, abhi G).

Fake: Your quote about that being an unintelligent solution isn’t true. The majority of your negotiating power in salary situations is having information that the director or hiring manager doesn’t. How would you fare if you were to walk into a freelance opportunity and immediately state that you make “100 whatevers” per hour? What if they would have paid more?

As to your other comment about two people making different salaries for the same job, there are many, many reasons for that to occur in the first place (lack or existence of a specialized degree, extra training, years of experience, etc…). Yes. I do think that they’d be upset. Hence my argument.

People are very understanding when you communicate; regardless of the information – good or bad. It’s up to the manager to explain to you why a situation is happening. If they’re not honest or upfront, then you’ve got many more issues than just “Why does Sally make more than Jane?”.

My advice to not share salary information is a general rule that I believe applies to at least 90% of the situations out there. If you disagree, fantastic. I like seeing both sides of the argument and I appreciate the comments.

posted at 01:50 pm on May 22, 2008 by Keith LaFerriere

17 @Clarifying salary discussions

I’ll start by saying what I should have stated earlier: nice and interesting article, it was a good read. Thanks.

Quote:
The majority of your negotiating power in salary situations is having information that the director or hiring manager doesn’t. How would you fare if you were to walk into a freelance opportunity and immediately state that you make “100 whatevers� per hour? What if they would have paid more?

Your point was about sharing information between coworkers, not about holding your tongue when you’re in a job-interview. Unless I read you wrong.

Quote:
People are very understanding when you communicate; regardless of the information – good or bad. It’s up to the manager to explain to you why a situation is happening. If they’re not honest or upfront, then you’ve got many more issues than just “Why does Sally make more than Jane?�.

That is exactly my point. In the situation of two coworkers being paid differently for the same job, you’re arguing it’s better to avoid the situation by having a corporate culture of “don’t share salary information”. I’m saying let people know why they’re being treated differently instead of trying to hide it. After all, you’re implicitly arguing that there’s a good reason for the difference in treatment so why assume that the workers cannot see the reasoning?

I would say that maybe your rule of thumb applies in the US 90% of the time but it certainly doesn’t everywhere. Which is not saying that you’re wrong, just that corporate culture accounts for a lot.

Regards
Fake

posted at 02:43 pm on May 22, 2008 by Fake Fiftyone

18 Sure thing

Your point was about sharing information between coworkers, not about holding your tongue when you’re in a job-interview. Unless I read you wrong.

You read it right. After I pressed submit I realized that I should have put “this is just an example of sharing or not sharing information”. Thank you for addressing it.

I would say that maybe your rule of thumb applies in the US 90% of the time but it certainly doesn’t everywhere. Which is not saying that you’re wrong, just that corporate culture accounts for a lot.

Sure thing. I spent two years working internationally in both Amsterdam and London and while you are completely correct that corporate culture should dictate the situation, I can only speak from both my experience and my training. Comments from people like yourself help fulfill the obligation to paint the entire picture.

Cheers.

posted at 02:57 pm on May 22, 2008 by Keith LaFerriere

19 great argument

This a fantastic argument to follow and I hope other managers can both relate and understand how this subject (and honesty in general?) can help or hurt a situation.

posted at 03:10 pm on May 22, 2008 by Jim Schuk

20 Salary Vs. Opportunities

Nice article Keith.

Further to what John K wrote… it’s not only versatility but also learning new skills which may result in a promotion (and larger increase) further down the line. Be careful not to overlook opportunities.

For example you may have expressed an interest to your employer that you’d like to learn project management skills. If your employer supports you in this they may take a variety of strategies, perhaps getting you to be the client contact while the lead PM is on vacation, maybe even giving you a small internal project – better yet, you may be asked to lead a larger project of your own.

As John writes, showing willingness is invaluable. So if given these opportunities be careful not to ‘bite the hand that feeds’ by demanding a review straight away (or, as I have seen happen, refusing to take on the seemingly less glamorous tasks like being asked to manage the client liaison while the PM is on vacation). It’s easy to forget that often employers are taking a risk in giving people opportunities to learn more skills.

posted at 01:54 am on May 23, 2008 by Pepi Ronalds