11 PHP version

Walt, you can get the PHP Wireframe app at http://php-fusebox.sourceforge.net/index.php?fuseaction=downloads.main. It’s down the bottom of the page. The demo link isn’t working, but the download link is.

posted at 05:40 pm on September 22, 2002 by Matthew Bartlett

12 CF is great, but not everyone uses it...

I did like the article on Scope Screep by Hal and was impressed w/ some of the “thoughts” behind the subject…

That said I have one obvious comment — and this will surely get me stoned by CF’ers — “ahem, not everyone out there uses ColdFusion.”

That also said, I can tell you from working w/ smaller, mom & pop clients, that as long as I’ve been fighting the use of templates and the like I’m finding more and more clients just point me to sites they like and say, “Can you do something like this that isn’t this exactly?”

Hmmm, a lot like “…reinvent the wheel but make it look just like this wheel here but don’t do it exactly cause I want to be different…” Err, something like that I suppose is how it goes.

Maybe I’m way off in left field here so I’m gonna shut up for the time being. Just wanted to say the article caused me to think and at the same time I realized that there are quite possibly a lot of others out there like me that lose a lot of time, and therefore money, when the client thinks they know what they like but doesn’t.

Okay, now I’ve confused myself about what I wanted to say. Pardon the intrusion — your reguarly scheduled discussion will resume, already in progress.

Thx!

_ D.

posted at 11:25 pm on September 22, 2002 by Dayn Riegel

13 What happens when...

Scope Creep never really disapears, it just changes into something else. Because once the client knows EXACTLY what he wants his site to look like and feature – he will start complaining about pixelwidths, non-standard fonts and the rest of Browser 3.X many faults.

This is true for clients that are used to work with print. Meaning that they usussally have a pretty good idea what they want – and once that lightbulb goes on above their pointyhaired heads, they refuse to accept anything else. Try to explain why it won’t look the same in every browser; “it does in print”.

I don’t think we can ever get around clients with little or no understanding for the diffrences between what they want, and what they need. Templates, wireframes, specifications, styleguides, contracts and note-taking will only go so far. And the expectations, or the understanding, from the client are never the same between projects. It seems futile… on a case to case basis.

posted at 03:25 am on September 23, 2002 by Andreas

14 Software development: DSDM

I work as an application engineer for a large dutch bank and our ICT dev. dept. recently adopted DSDM, Dynamic Systems Development Method. Some of the aspects mentioned in the ALA article are integral parts of DSDM, in fact the whole method might very well apply to web design as much as to software engineering.
Check out www.dsdm.org for more information.

posted at 05:55 am on September 23, 2002 by Ronald van der Wijden

15 DSDM principles can be an asnwer

Ronald mentioned DSDM (http://www.alistapart.com/stories/scopecreep/discuss/#ala-951). As a consultant in business intelligence i’m used to work with the kind of clients who are described so vividly on the firts section of the article.

I use DSDM techniques (or its principles perhaps) a lot and it gives very satisfactionary results.

What you agree on is a fixed time and fixed amount of money for a development cycle, you prioritise needs, and then you try to get in as many ‘must have’ needs in that cycle. If time is left, you add some ‘should have’ priorities and then you deliver a working project at the end of the cycle.

End-users are an integral part of the cycle, so the linking pin with the client is always there.

In my experience as a consultant this avoids scope creep in its negative conotation, but is very helpful in formulating the real functional specifications along the way. The fixed time frame forces decisions.

This is a very rudimentary description, for more information do check out http:/www.dsdm.org

You can apply the same principles to web development projects, it is not about the development technique, but about giving answers to business needs that are hard to formulate for the client without seeing a working visualisation first.

posted at 07:01 am on September 23, 2002 by Martijn ten Napel

16 Designer joke

The version of the joke I heard was:

Q. How many designers does it take to change a lightbulb?

A. Does it have to be a lightbulb?

posted at 09:12 am on September 23, 2002 by Chris Gruber

17 designer joke

It’s actually an old advertising joke.

How many copywriters does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: Does it have to be a lightbulb.

How many art directors does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: We’re not changing a damn thing.

posted at 09:33 am on September 23, 2002 by apartness

18 Can Project Management Integrate Scope Creep?

In my experience Project Management has a devil of a time integrating Scope Creep. I agree with the author: scope creep can and should be embraced because it is really nothing more than the evolution of an idea. How many of us have worked on a “side-project” with someone that hasn’t morphed/evolved into more than we initially dreamt about? Probably never.

As we play with the softare we realize there are data connections and paths there that were not at all apparent when we informally scoped the project out. And I’m not convinced Business Requirements Documents are any more formal than informal discussions – they’re just written down in a document and signed off by the client and product/project manager.

Cutting to the chase: has anyone been able to, or worked with Project Management software, than can adequately reflect the important role of scope creep and integrate that into the plan? We need project plans to keep us focused and measure progress: but they can become more damaging than scope creep because they can so easily invalidate good design ideas a “scope creep”.

Seems to me we need a better model or paradigm of project management that embraces scope creep and redefines it as scheduled development.

posted at 11:07 am on September 24, 2002 by Joel Sanda

19 This forum style still sucks

Why, oh why, is this craptastic forum still here?

posted at 07:50 pm on September 25, 2002 by Irritated beyond belief

20 From both sides now

Rather a refreshing forum style if you ask me – with some intelligent, well thought out pontificating (as opposed to the above mouth-off!)

What I actually wanted to say was more along the lines of agreeing that its the designers, (who are not always the developers, but usually are) who need to be more responsible for leading the client – once they have figured out the reason for the site in the first place. The designer has to keep asking – does this do what we the client/user wants it to do?

As both a client and a designer, I have seen it from both sides.. my developer did not design enough (or talk to me) before he started coding, and then, well, it was too late to do any major structural changes.. hmmph. In fact I was still tying to negotiate exactly what we were going to do – I had only shown him a 2 page graphic mockup, when he had already gone down the code road!
(Not to mention that I found him through elance – and his English wasn’t bad for a Ukranian!)

posted at 05:43 am on September 26, 2002 by brooz