Discuss: A Preview of HTML 5

by Lachlan Hunt

101 Embedding flash

Okay, let’s see if I’ve got this right. Here’s where (X)HTML5 stands today:

Current working draft includes the well supported embed element.

Since there won’t be any doctype, we can use <!DOCTYPE html> starting today.

This allows for a simple cross-browser way to embed Flash movies today using valid (X)HTML5 markup according to specification!

Although embed doesn’t support fallback, I very much prefer it’s simplicity over using the object element

posted at 05:35 am on January 5, 2008 by Emil Konow

I don’t understand why we need a new SGML-based language. I can (on a good day) understand why we need two branches of the language (one for smart, hand-coding humans, and one for machines to regurgitate), but I don’t understand why the second one has been designed to keep our web browsers so bulky, by not caring about syntax. Any machine can easily comprehend XML syntax, and spit that out instead of SGML.

XML leads to cell phones being able to use the whole web, and much faster web browsers. We wee told that XML is the way of the future, and now the W3C stabs all the standardista-minor in the back with a new SGML-based language: not cool.

posted at 07:55 pm on January 6, 2008 by Jason Cole

103 My first browse here!

My first browse here!

posted at 06:21 pm on January 12, 2008 by Lee Eyuan

104 Do we really need this?

So HTML5 will introduce a load of new semantic tags. But what exactly will they achieve? To the end user whether a tag is <header> or <div class=“header”> is irrelevant. It will look the same. To the browser I imagine it makes no difference either. I imagine a header tag will be rendered just like a div tag, depending on the default CSS a browser applies to it. It might help with some accessibility issues and might also help with interoperability between automated systems I guess.

The latter is anyway solved by XML and the former is only the case if the tags are used properly. But then that’s the problem with HTML in the first place. It is not being used as intended and when HTML5 finally sees the light of day, it too won’t be used as intended. Having one nav tag is great, but what we will end up seeing is 5 or 6 of them because they achieve a certain layout effect. How is a blind user then going to be able to tell which is the “main” nav tag.

Really what we need is a way of applying semantics to tags in the same way that CSS applies styling to them.

I really wish all the effort that has gone into HTML5 had actually been put to better use in creating a common rendering engine or at least a standardised way of rendering CSS instructions. I just don’t see how HTML5 is solving the problems of HTML4. The problems with current web design are actually with the support for CSS, not HTML.

posted at 10:55 am on January 14, 2008 by Robin Massart

105 Microsoft went missing

Work on HTML 5, which commenced in 2004, is currently being carried out in a joint effort between the W3C HTML WG and the WHATWG. Many key players are participating in the W3C effort including representatives from the four major browser vendors: Apple, Mozilla, Opera, and Microsoft; and a range of other organisations and individuals with many diverse interests and expertise.

Firstoff, is the WHATWG the driving force, primarily, behind HTML5? And Microsoft is not a part of WHATWG (the listed reason is that they cannot agree that the final spec should not require software patents to implement – a weird reason, whether true or not. It leaves us to assume they simply want no part any any true interoperability).

To this commenter, it seems the author is going out of the way to try to include Microsoft in this effort, whereas they decided not to show up to the party.

posted at 08:05 am on January 15, 2008 by Alan Hogan

106 I'm With Robin on this one

Robin’s comments above really hit the nail on the head for me. I’ve coded professionally for a few long years now, and rather than refining the rules of the Game, HTML 5 seems to be a drawn out debate on what the Team should call itself. <header> or <div class=“header”>? How about the “Fighting Mongooses”, that’s a good team name.

Snarkiness aside, I’m curious to see just how far this goes.

posted at 08:18 am on January 16, 2008 by Scott Walldren

107 Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscin

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posted at 04:37 pm on January 16, 2008 by Tom Bradley

108 sorry

That was an accident. I was horsing about with the comments control.

I would like to remove it, but can’t.

posted at 04:39 pm on January 16, 2008 by Tom Bradley

109 Standards

I also don’t see any distinct advantages with this new presentation model except for the change in semantics. As a career C/C++ GUI developer I’ve seen the OOP model obfuscated to no end in a vain attempt to simplify the nature of coding through API’s, toolkits and template libraries. As far as web development is concerned, my attitude is “if something isn’t broken, don’t fix it”. As web developers (not unlike C++ developers) the more advanced we take our art and develop hacks to accomodate functionality that isn’t inherent in the fundamental architecture, new conventions intrinsicly inhibit the evolution of the principles of design and cause us to write hacks.

Besides, not every webpage layout follow the same style, so burdening developers with new structures such as navigation, header, etc, is re-inventing the wheel when what the new semantics accomplish is somethign that has already been addressed.

posted at 03:59 am on January 18, 2008 by Dave Smith

110 Untitled

I’m really keen on new web technology, especially I love AJAX. The problem with new technologies is, that it doesn’t work with old browsers and most users don’t upgrade their browsers fast enough :(

posted at 10:32 am on January 19, 2008 by Claudia Samwer